Gary Matthews Jr.: Fundamentals of Success in Major League Baseball, Business and Beyond | RUHM Podcast
On this episode of RUHM Podcast, Tim and special guest Gary Matthews Jr., former Major League Baseball player-turned real estate investor inspires listeners to greatness.
From confidence to accountability, honesty to mindset – they uncover the fundamental guidance needed on a journey towards self-improvement. Hear how surrounding yourself with uplifting people can propel you forward in life, as well as two powerful questions necessary for taking control today. They emphasize that in order to take your game or career to the next level - it requires an unseen level of commitment which can often be overlooked but is ultimately essential.
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Tim Smith 0:00
I'm Tim Smith of The Smith Group here at CineNewport presenting our podcast RUHM where we're here to highlight and expose to the world, the amazing people, places, stories and properties of Southern California.
Today, I'm so thrilled to have my guest, former MLB player, Gary Matthews, Jr. Thanks for coming in today, Gary.
Gary Matthews Jr. 0:27
Always a pleasure, man. It's great to see you. Thanks for having me.
Tim Smith 0:30
Yeah. So I want to start out because we're trying to give people a little bit of a flavor from Orange County and ask you some questions of local spots.
Gary Matthews Jr. 0:38
Tim Smith 0:39
Best breakfast place.
Gary Matthews Jr. 0:41
Best breakfast, would, I would say a choice between Hotcakes.
Tim Smith 0:49
Okay. On 17th, love it.
Gary Matthews Jr. 0:51
On 17th. Yeah, local spot. Really good pancakes. Great breakfast, great coffees and lattes if you'd like that. And my second go-to is probably Panini right there in Corona de Mar on PCH.
Tim Smith 1:04
I thought you were gonna say Panini or Zinc. We've been getting a lot of - the Zinc is good.
Gary Matthews Jr. 1:08
Yeah, I get some I get some Zinc. But you know, Panini - the French toast is just bonkers. It's on a different level, so you know, I eat my cheat meals on the weekend. So it's Saturday morning breakfast, I could flip flop between Hotcakes and Panini on PCH.
Tim Smith 1:21
Date night, where are you going?
Gary Matthews Jr. 1:22
Date night..You know, Orange County is still in my opinion a little tough for really authentic restaurants for someone like me who's traveled so much - traveled the world and so I like these kind of obscure and unique spots. So I think Arc is a really good spot.
And for a steakhouse I like to go off the beaten path so I think Selanne Steak Tavern in Laguna is a really good spot.
Tim Smith 1:52
Selanne, it's probably like one of the best three, right?
Gary Matthews Jr. 1:56
I think it's so underrated.
Tim Smith 1:57
Mastros, but Selanne's is always good. There's the new one - the Drake - have you been to the Drake?
Gary Matthews Jr. 2:02
I have been to the Drake. They got kind of like a jazzy scene there. You show up early. They got jazz band going, I like it.
Tim Smith 2:08
South Laguna, it used to be Taboo Grill. My wife and I just went there when we were down at Monarch and we had like the most epic dinner. I don't know if it was just, if this was a normal night, but the guy that was singing was just killing it.
Gary Matthews Jr. 2:24
This is at The Drake?
Tim Smith 2:25
Yeah, like old jazz band. And I mean, he was killing it. We started at the bar , ended up in the restaurant. Like it was awesome.
Gary Matthews Jr. 2:32
Yeah, they had like a four or five piece band. Had a guy on the bass.
Tim Smith 2:37
Yeah, right. Awesome.
Gary Matthews Jr. 2:38
Somebody on drums.
Tim Smith 2:39
But it's weird, because it's like a little retail center on the front. Okay, you said something that made me think.You've traveled all over, you've lived in a lot of different spots - played - why Orange County? Like this is what I want to know. Because the big thing right now is we're seeing five times the out-of-state demand for people to live here because it's so safe, great climate and great lifestyle. So why Orange County? You could live anywhere.
Gary Matthews Jr. 2:39
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. You know, all the things that you described, right? It's um, the weathers amazing, first and foremost, and the logistics of being able to get to and from, get your kids off to school, get them off to camps and their different sports. And you can get off to work and then still have a life of your own without sitting in hours and hours of traffic that you might have in certain major metropolitan cities. So you know, LA is right down the road, compare it to the traffic and logistics in LA, it's just not even, not even close. And so I ended up here, really simple, the Angels needed a centerfielder and I really wanted to come home and come back and play in California. I think I was 32 at the time.
Tim Smith 3:51
This was 2006 when you came?
Gary Matthews Jr. 3:52
This was 2000-- after the season in 2006, so between the 2006 and 2007 seasons, I was a free agent. And we were you know, really truth be told I was trying to get a deal done with the Texas Rangers. I played there for four years in the American League West and I had a really good relationship with the fan base, great relationship with the front office, and specifically the coaching staff. Rudy Jaramillo and DeMarlo Hale. I'd really come into my own there, finally got a chance to play every day. Found a fan base in an organization who supported me and gave me an opportunity to play and I really blossomed. But we couldn't, ultimately we couldn't get a deal done, and so the Angels, who I was really familiar with, because they were in the American League West - I played against them for years and they had beat up on us. And that's the old adage that if you can't beat him join him. But, but really, I'm from Southern California born and raised - born in San Francisco when my dad was playing for the Giants but raised in Southern California - we moved here when I was six. Both my parents are from L.A. and so really it was kind of a natural progression of wanting to come home, wanting to play in front of family.
Tim Smith 5:07
Yeah. Go back real quick, because I'm just curious, from your standpoint, why don't deals get done? Is it terms? Is it price? Like, what is it?
Gary Matthews Jr. 5:15
It can be a combination of things. Sometimes it's the terms. Sometimes it's not just the salary, sometimes it's the number of years, sometimes a player really wants to play for a certain organization or wants to play for a certain team. For me, it was kind of all of the above - we couldn't get the numbers right, couldn't get the years right on the length of the contract. But the truth is, the Angels were really good organization. They had a team that I felt wasn't far from a championship - the World Series. And it happened to be where I lived. I was living in Texas at the time but I'd grown up in L.A. and, you know, it is a very unique thing to have an opportunity to come back and play at home where you grew up, where all your family and friends are, in a major city like L.A. And so I really felt like I was ready. I was mature enough. I'm a veteran player by this time at 32, a lot of experience. And I was ready for it. I wanted to challenge and most importantly, I wanted to win a World Series, and so that is how I ended up in, in Orange County. And specifically in Corona del Mar, my grandfather, my maternal grandfather, was in commercial real estate, owned strip malls in the San Fernando Valley. And we were talking about..
Tim Smith 6:39
It's funy how the themes of your life, like come back, because we're going to jump into your segue into real estate, but keep on going.
Gary Matthews Jr. 6:45
Yeah, so my grandfather, my maternal grandfather was in commercial real estate. And we were talking about where I should buy a home, you know, should I even buy a home in Orange County, I'd never lived there. Wasn't sure what it was going to be like, wasn't sure if I was going to truly like playing for the organization. And really long story short, I had that conversation with my grandfather, and he said, here's what we're going to do. We're going to find the best real estate in Orange County, we're going to find the best zip code not far from freeway access, great schools, logistics, you know, not far from the beach.
Tim Smith 7:23
So he took his years of real estate and he's like, we're gonna go ahead and put it into like, a recipe. And this is what we're gonna look for.
Gary Matthews Jr. 7:31
Yeah. And so we had a conversation with my grandfather about Corona del Mar, specifically. He thought we should buy a small place in a really nice neighborhood not far from the beach. So I put in a phone call to a high school teammate of mine, Flavio Castro, who was a real estate agent. And we found a home got a deal done. I looked in Crystal Cove. I looked in Shore Cliffs, and ultimately, I decided on Cameo Highlands, which is a great family neighborhood. Really quiet.
Tim Smith 8:02
So for all the listeners - Cameo Highlands and Cameo Shores are the - in Corona Del Mar, which is in kind of the heart of Newport Beach - are the very south end of Corona Mar before you get to Crystal Cove
Gary Matthews Jr. 8:12
Before it turns into Crystal Cove and then Laguna Beach. You know, so it was out of the way, gave me privacy, really quiet. You don't even hear the noise. I was one street up from PCH, on Dorchester so you don't get any of the noise, but you get amazing views in this really small kind of niche of a neighborhood, that's not far from the village. So I'd walk into the village.
Tim Smith 8:13
Gary Matthews Jr. 8:14
Great freeway access to the 73 up Newport Coast Drive or drive through Corona del Mar Village to MacArthur, and shoot right over to the 73. So I had really good access to the stadium. Getting to the stadium every day over at Angel Stadium and but still the lifestyle that I wanted of having like a really cool kind of beach vibe, really low key, very understated, if you will, but unbelievable values and a great lifestyle.
Tim Smith 9:08
Yeah. So let's back up before we get into more of the real estate. Let's back up. Newport Beach is a crazy baseball town. I say that because I have a 10-year-old Yeah and my my 10-year-old played a couple years of baseball, he's not a baseball player. But the two years I was playing, I could not believe the amount of dads and moms that would spend the resources and time training, batting coaches, pitching coaches. And so I just like, as I'm thinking about it, I want to go back to when you grew up playing baseball. And I want to think about two things. Number one, for anybody listening out there that has dreams and aspirations of being a baseball player be it D1 or professional. What advice - and is there a recipe? Similar to your grandpa's recipe for real estate? Is there recipe and then with it - when did you know? Yeah, you know what I mean? When did you know that like, okay, like I'm different, like this has turned into something different.
Gary Matthews Jr. 10:10
Yeah. So are you familiar with the game. I mean obviously you know the game of baseball - did you play growing up?
Tim Smith 10:15
I played through junior high and then I stuck with basketball and kind of other sports but yeah.
Gary Matthews Jr. 10:20
Tim Smith 10:21
I was a pitcher. Yeah
Gary Matthews Jr. 10:23
You got the height, you know 6'4". Something like that. Tall, thin. You look like you could have been menacing on the mound.
Tim Smith 10:29
I could probably get 65 down the pipe.
Gary Matthews Jr. 10:33
Yeah. So I started - my father was a major league baseball player. Was Rookie of the Year, first-round draft pick with the Giants. 1973 Rookie of the Year. Epic, epic career. Was really productive. You know, borderline Hall of Famer, in my opinion. Still my hero to this day. But yeah, I was a second generation player. So growing up, you have a father that plays - this was his job - and so we were at the stadium every day, right? Quite a bit and doesn't take long if you're growing up in it, to develop a love for it. Certainly an appreciation for everything that that goes into it. So, really kind of another natural progression for me. My father played and..
Tim Smith 11:24
It's funny. It's funny, the theme of your father and your grandfather, great mentors, right?
Gary Matthews Jr. 11:31
Tim Smith 11:32
Because one real estate, and one baseball, right?
Gary Matthews Jr. 11:35
You know, I was really fortunate to - you know look, obviously, I love these two men, they've been - you know, their influence on my life as a man and in my career are just so so obvious. But you, you look at - you know, any young man, right, and these these influences you have in your life, and the impact they have on you. It's just really fortunate that I had these two men in my life who are just highly driven, highly successful, men of integrity, men of their word. And so I've just been really fortunate that I developed an interest in what they did for a living, and was able to kind of convert both of those into a passion, you know, the first being Major League Baseball. And then, you know, the second career, which we'll we'll get into later on, was from my kind of pattern myself after my maternal grandfather, Willie Smith. Yeah, just an unbelievable man, we had him till 98, he passed away about eight years ago, but lived to 98, was married for 79 years, just unbelievable life that he had.
Tim Smith 12:46
It's interesting when you get themes of like, mentors, and like, we've had a lot of YPO guys in here that have their forums, their personal board of directors, what do you say, to the people out there that aren't as fortunate don't have dads that were or fathers? Like, what would you say, as an instruction? Because you can't hack that? You can hack that, but what are you gonna do? How do you do that?
Gary Matthews Jr. 13:06
You can, you know, hopefully, at some point, you're able to figure out something that you're passionate about, right. And once you figure out something that you're passionate about, hopefully, it leads to possible mentors, right, people that you admire, usually, someone figures out something that they're passionate about, and then they figure out or meet, happen to run into someone who's really good at. And that's kind of like, where it where it begins. It's got to be really difficult for for certain people who maybe don't have those influences in their life, maybe through family that are just readily available that are just right there. But you know, maybe it's a, it's a teacher in your life at school, maybe it's a friend, right, that you're you're going to college with that has a family member, and you're taking an interest in that particular industry. But I've just, I try my best to have a circle of really positive people, people who are driven, people who are smarter than me, people who are better than me about what they do, and in what they do. And so eventually, it leads to these great relationships built on integrity and character. And a lot of times it leads to opportunities, based on our common interest and our characteristics that we have. And so I would just..
Tim Smith 14:37
There's a big theme that's come in here - and I just, like, it keeps on coming up. And maybe it's because the people we're having. Number one: find a mentor. Right? If you don't have one - because I have this suspicion, that you're like me - if there was a kid or a young man or a young woman that was really earnestly wanted you to be a mentor, is that something you would do?
Gary Matthews Jr. 15:01
I do, you know.
Tim Smith 15:02
Like, absolutely right? And I find I find that successful people, and not just successful from a money standpoint and whatever, like part of that is they're looking for those people to mentor. But part of the, the thing I think that goes out to the message is, you want to be the person, that is the good mentee as well. Because there's a lot of people because I've had some tremendous mentors in my life. One I met at an open house 24 years ago, and we literally talk weekly, daily, we have these traditions - still! And I think that - you know, the funny thing is, it's a big joke, because we talk about how it's a one-sided friendship, because all he does is give me great advice. Gives me great like, deals - flow, right? And then he refers me all his friends. But at the end of it, I think if you really asked him, he would say, I actually get a lot by giving back to you.
Gary Matthews Jr. 15:56
Tim Smith 15:57
Right. So that's the one theme. The second theme is, I think everybody needs to realize that you really are the average of the five people or the 10 people you hang out with most.
Gary Matthews Jr. 16:06
Tim Smith 16:07
So if you don't like what you're doing, right? It's like there's a book called Discipline No More, that's come up with this. And this guy doesn't believe in discipline. He says, basically, if you're in an environment where you have to discipline yourself out of your problems, find a new environment. Right, find new friends, find a new mentor. Now I know, there's a lot of insecurities and things that keep you from that but it's really about just showing up for yourself. So let's jump back to the baseball thing, because I've often gone through this, and I think we've talked about it in the past. So you're, I mean, you're growing up at the baseball fields, dad's a player, obviously, it makes sense you love the game. But at what point did you start realizing? Was there an age when you're like, Okay, "you know what, this isn't just a dream", like, I can actually see, was there one point where you're like, Okay, this was like a big difference, or an experience?
Gary Matthews Jr. 16:57
Yeah, you're gonna laugh at this. But, you know, when you're four or five years old, you start playing T ball for the first time. And you recognize, like, really early, at least I did, that there were things that I could do, that other kids couldn't do. And there's so many other things that kind of go into maturing as a player and growing and creating an opportunity as a professional. That's a long way from being four years old. But if you asked me at four or five years old, I would have told you that I was going to be a major league baseball. And if I'm being honest, I would say by, say, by 10.
Tim Smith 17:41
Gary Matthews Jr. 17:42
I felt I knew it at 10. Really, before that, but I sound crazy when I say like, "Oh, I was five years old, and I knew what I was going to do."
Tim Smith 17:48
Well, but I think there's also the kids that say I'm going to be a professional and they're not right. But it's just like, you gotta believe in that vision. Right? If you don't have that vision, it's not going to drive you to the work. But there's got to be some points when you're like, when you were 10. Was there something in the 10 to 15 range where you're like, whether it was an experience where you're just like, okay, like this is just.
Gary Matthews Jr. 18:09
It was a passion for the game. Passion and a love for the game. Obviously, I had this influence from my father that played, but I also had an amazing mother and you know, her influence shouldn't be discounted, right? Like, my mother, Mrs. Sandra Crayton. Now my mom's remarried. She is, she was so amazing as a Mother. Filled me with confidence, filled me with love. She was a hard worker, driven, you know, even you know, my dad was playing and so..You know, she worked in finance for a long time and, you know, I found out later that she majored in early childhood development. And so, you know, that speaks to quite a bit of why she was such an amazing mom.
Tim Smith 18:09
Give us some of the things that made her amazing in helping you become your best.
Gary Matthews Jr. 18:36
Yeah, you know, confidence is so important, and we talk about whether it is professional sports, whether it is real estate, you have to have the utmost confidence. I think it is really important to be realistic about what you do well, and what you don't do well, but you also have to have an unrealistic, confident, confidence in yourself. And for me, that confidence started with a mother who, who pumped that belief that you're going to do great that there's the expectation that you know, you have the gift, you have the talent. Now you're going to have to work hard, you're going to follow directions, but my mom gave me the utmost confidence at all times. And so when you grow up with an unrealistic confidence about yourself and your ability to accomplish even short term goals, right, it just - it just built right? It built from such a young age and instilled.
Tim Smith 19:57
It's amazing because I think about this in my aspect, because I have, you know, we run one of the biggest groups in the nation now. And I see these agents that come and they want to be an agent. And I often wonder, like, you know, the confidence - like so one of one of the gals that worked for me as an administrative for about a year and a half went into selling real estate, when she started, she just didn't have the confidence. I'm like, I would sit down like you have it, you just have to choose it. And so now fast forward eight years, and she's like one of the most dominant agents on our team, and she kills it. And I say, what was more important, you actually having the knowledge, or you actually having the confidence - what came first? And she said, You know what, I remember, we used to talk about this, you're right, if I would have made a choice to have more confidence in the beginning, I could have done a lot better. It took me to where I actually had the knowledge, till I got the confidence. But now that I have the knowledge, I've realized confidence is a choice. Yeah. And belief is a choice. But with having a mother like that, right?
Gary Matthews Jr. 21:01
But people don't always start out that way. Right? Like you, you were speaking about mentorship a couple minutes ago, and the importance of finding a mentor that can help you reach that next level, right? Maybe she had never really had someone to truly believe in her. Right? I truly believe that if she was talented enough and maybe she needed that confidence from you, right, to hear that she's talented enough to make it - to be one of the top agents - to be successful in an industry that's really competitive, right? None of us start out with - none of us are born with this, this confidence - it grows, right? We have a mentor, we have a parent, someone that kind of, you know, gives us a glimpse of what's possible in our lives. And you said you had your mentor for 24 years and you know, the relationship has changed over the years but you guys are still close, you know. Did you think like 24 years from now, you're gonna be one of the highest grossing agents in the nation? And one of the top tier agents in all of Orange County, you know, like that it didn't start out.
Tim Smith 22:07
No. But it's funny that you say that about the mentor thing, because I think that I always had this yearning to like, find people that knew more. I don't know why. Like, I would like latch onto people and I would like when I was in elementary and junior high, I was going to be a Utah Jazz ballboy. And somehow I became really good friends with Thoreau Bailey, who played for the Jazz and he used to pick me up before the camp. And I think about now I was eight and nine years old, I wouldn't let my son go with an NBA player from here to LA but it was like this thing. I don't know what it is. But it's like, part of this is like dissecting things that are successful. Okay, so let's go back to the baseball thing because you were known - I remember, I think it was in 2006 you caught a ball. And I think it was Mike lambs ball. Was that it?
Gary Matthews Jr. 22:58
Mike Lamb. Yeah.
Tim Smith 23:00
And it was like, and I still remember because they were calling this like one of the greatest defensive plays ever. Right? And they were saying, like, what you are known for is your athleticism, your ability to jump and to catch like, you were an epic - and so tell me about more, some of the highlights of your career.
Gary Matthews Jr. 23:18
Well, I mean, you just named you know, probably my, the highlight that I'm known for, right? Yeah, you. You dedicate almost 37 years of your life to playing a sport and at the end of it, you're kind of known for like this this one big moment. You know, on one hand, it's kind of like, "Wow, there's so much more to the career" and 37 years that I played the game. But how special is it that I have a moment that fans still remember? I've been retired for 11 years now and still, probably once a week, someone comes up to me and asked me about this particular catch, and this play.
Tim Smith 24:00
We're gonna put it on this just so - they're gonna see this.
Gary Matthews Jr. 24:02
You're gonna queue it up? So really, at this point, I just consider myself really, just really fortunate, right, that fans still remember this play. And, to me personally, it's just this small piece of what is, you know, 37 years of, of a family legacy. You know, my father played. My brother Dell works for Major League Baseball development, he's at headquarters in New York. So he's a young executive in the game up-and-coming. His goal is to eventually become a GM and so there's so many bits and pieces. It's really doesn't feel like it's just my career. It's really kind of like a family legacy. And I've been able to contribute a small piece of it. Just really, really special.
Tim Smith 24:02
Yeah, it's almost like the generational legacy, because we're seeing a lot of that is baseball.
Gary Matthews Jr. 24:59
Yeah, and You know, having been out, as long as I've been out now - eleven years - I have a different perspective of how special it is. A lot of times when you're playing and you're living in that moment, you, you feel the need to kind of keep things even-keeled. And that was my way of dealing with the pressure and expectations of playing in a major city, of being a second generation player. I never really allowed myself to feel like I was that guy, right, that guy with a five year deal in a major city with a really successful team. That was my way of dealing with the pressure and the expectations that come. And rightfully so, they come with your position of where you're at. But now that I'm out of it, I have this...The memories really have certainly grown sweeter over time and I have a different appreciation for it. And I always appreciated it while I was doing it. Having conversations with my parents about the game, before I started playing professionally, I knew that eventually this game ends and at the end of the day, what you have is - you know, the most important thing is your family. Right? This family unit that we have we supported each other with, we've all grown and the game of baseball is amazing and it's given us a lot, but it's certainly not who we are. It's just a piece of our lives that we've been fortunate enough to have, for that small period of time that you're able to play professionally. I've been really fortunate that, you know, my family still is involved with the game today, but those memories are just, they've grown unbelievably sweeter over time now that I'm not in it every day.
Tim Smith 26:50
For sure, you're out of it. So go back, if you had to answer the question, I want the recipe to become a professional baseball player. The five things. We talked about one: mentors.
Gary Matthews Jr. 27:01
Yeah. You know, I think the most important aspect of being able to be a professional baseball player, and this probably, I think, is relatable in any industry - Is for me, the ability to deal with failure, because there will be failure.
Tim Smith 27:24
Dissect a little more, how do you - the ability to deal with failure.
Gary Matthews Jr. 27:28
On on any given day - let's say in baseball, if I go to the plate 10 times, and I get three hits, that's hitting 300. Those are what we call Hall of Fame numbers. You're an all-star. you hit 300, you're an all-star. And if you can hit 300 over a career, and you went to a World Series title, you got a shot to be one of the best ever.
Tim Smith 27:58
You're Hall of Fame. For sure.
Gary Matthews Jr. 28:00
Three out of 10 means a 70% failure in baseball. That is a lot of failure. And that means..
Tim Smith 28:09
So is dealing with failure, changing the association of what failure looks like? Like, not looking at it like it's a 70% failure? It's like, Hey, this is I mean, is it changing your mindset on it? Or what do you mean?
Gary Matthews Jr. 28:23
It's always - for me it's always been about mindset. There are so many players that had a better skill set than me. They were faster. They hit more home runs. Maybe they had a better arm. Right? Like, there's so many talented players that have played this game that never reached the major leagues. And really, it's not their physical gifts that keep them from becoming great. It's really their, the mental game that prevents them from getting to the major leagues, and then maybe sustaining a long career. It is not the physical gifts, right? It's not always about how smart you are. It's not always about, you know, how many degrees you have. Like, no doubt, having gifts and talent helps. Yeah, but without the ability to cultivate that gift and that talent without the ability to navigate failure, which will come in any industry - it's going to be really difficult to have sustained success - in any industry that you're in.
Tim Smith 29:32
Well it's funny that you say - because I'm thinking about a show where they talked about a goldfish is the happiest animal on the planet.
Gary Matthews Jr. 29:40
And why is that?
Tim Smith 29:41
Because it's got a 10 second memory. Right? So if you look at like some of the greatest hitters of all time, they also have the greatest strikeout ratio of all time too, right. So there's something about that like okay, so find a mentor, deal with failure and not looking at maybe it turning failure into it's not like win or lose, it's win or learn. It's like what did I learned from that? How can I do better? And not letting - and really having a short memory, right? Because the mental aspects of any top profession, professional athlete, whatever your ability to handle pressure is going to be directly proportionate to your success, right?
Gary Matthews Jr. 30:21
Tim Smith 30:22
And so I'm sure there's times when you are feeling all the world, the weight of the world on your shoulders playing baseball, right?
Gary Matthews Jr. 30:29
Yeah. You know, at the end of the day, its, I always, even with all the pressure, right, with all the pressure from media, with expectations from fans, my own personal expectations. It's still just a game. Right? There are so many people out there dealing with real life or death issues. I got to play a game every day at 705 and so it was never lost on me that there were always people out there who had bigger issues. Now, look, it's my job. And so I took it seriously, it meant something to me. You know, there were times when maybe I took it more seriously than than I should have but when the stakes are this high, and there's this amount of money that you're making that's exchanging hands, there's a responsibility to give your your best effort, to always be prepared to deal with the failure, and so part of dealing with that failure for me, was being really honest with myself about what I did well, and what I didn't do well. It's really tough to get better, when you don't have the capability of being honest about what you're not good at.
Tim Smith 31:52
So that's a big one in everything. It's about truly like being aware and being accountable, right? Like having an accountability.
Gary Matthews Jr. 32:00
Accountability - that honesty with yourself.
Tim Smith 32:04
But if you can't measure the results, and be honest about your results, you can't improve them. So part of improving them before it's just being like really honest about this is where I'm at which a lot of times I think it's hard to be honest with ourselves about things.
Gary Matthews Jr. 32:17
Yeah, I think it's it's normal, right? It doesn't feel good to say, You know what, I'm not good at that. I didn't get the job done. Right? But when you're working in an industry, where if you don't get the job done, they're gonna get you up out of here. Like, you don't have a choice, right? You love playing. You know, for me, I loved being a professional athlete and playing major league baseball. Really, ultimately, for me, it was about the opportunity to follow my father's footsteps, which meant the world to me. Yeah, but also an opportunity to win a World Series title. Yeah. And you can't get better unless you're honest with yourself about some of your shortcomings. As a player, as a person.
Tim Smith 33:04
So give us an example of that - where you had to be really honest- like, what were those things where you were really honest.
Gary Matthews Jr. 33:09
Oh, I mean, it could be - it could be. I'll give you a great example. I didn't hit the breaking ball really well. A breaking ball is anything other than a fastball - a curveball, a slider. I just didn't naturally, I naturally didn't hit the breaking ball well. Right? I can always hit a fastball well, I can hit plus fastball, you know, tripil-digit fastball, and didn't have to cheat on it, which meant like, I didn't have to guess. Right? I just hit fastballs well. So when you hit a fastball, well, eventually, you know, pitchers in scouting reports, they've got an advanced Scout that's sitting behind saying anything but a fastball, right? So I just didn't particularly hit it well. And so that was something that I had to be honest about. I had to work on that. And I worked on that just about every day. It just had to become part of my routine.
Tim Smith 34:03
Okay, so that's like just such a great life lesson because first of all, you're being honest. Then they have professional scouts. They're saying, "Hey, throw this guy, change-up - a slider, a curveball, whatever." So what did you do then? Like what did that look like? You're talking extra practice where you're just hitting curveballs, sliders?
Gary Matthews Jr. 34:21
Yeah so it it was batting practice in the cage, behind the scenes, right? Where no one's there, it's just me and a hitting coach. And you're hitting breaking balls right off of machine and you just kind of - to me, kind of game-planning which breaking balls I was going to be swinging at.
Tim Smith 34:42
So when you started that process, was it like.... nobody likes to take their weaknesses and make them strengths?
Gary Matthews Jr. 34:51
Yeah. Maybe you're you're going through a hitting slump and you realize that, "Okay, listen, if I'm going to have the success that my talent says I should have in this game, I'm gonna have to hit the slider better. I'm gonna have to hit the curveball better." I'm gonna have to - so for me, I was like, You know what, look, no one at this level hits a really sharp breaking ball well, consistently. So like, if I know I don't hit it well, I shouldn't be swinging at breaking balls early in the count. Now, you know, I worked on that for years and years and you know, later on in my career, I'd say the last, you know, four years, five years of my career, you know, it got to the point where I could hit a hanging breaking ball well. That's the one you should - the bad breaking ball, right? That's the one you should be swinging it. The other curveballs, a sharp breaking ball when you're, you know, even in the count or ahead in the count. That's a no no. But this came over time and it became because I had the courage to be honest with myself about the fact that I didn't do that well.
Tim Smith 35:54
I just gotta stop right there because that's like such a life lesson. That's one of the hooks I'm talking about, like, being honest with ourselves about what our weaknesses and our strengths are. And not always focusing on our strengths, getting and staying in the batter box with a pitching coach, a mentor, whatever, and grinding through it until that weakness becomes a strength, which nobody -that's work. That's hard work and I just have to emphasize that because everybody that's listening, could apply that in whatever they're doing. I don't care if you're in real estate, in development, it's like, be honest with yourself. Like, I know what my strengths are, I know what my weaknesses are. And I'm not saying that you should actually always try to improve your weaknesses, there is a point where you're saying, "Hey, I'm going to focus on my strengths, I'm going to hire out. But when your weaknesses are inhibiting your performance, and your level of success, you got to address them and you got to put the time in.
Gary Matthews Jr. 36:50
Tim, you hit the nail on the head, like, you do have to be honest about those things in order to get better. But you know, as an entrepreneur, if there are certain things that you're not good at, or maybe you don't have the time to do, you have to you have to have the talent and I guess the wherewithal to delegate that, that job to someone else who does it well, and then maybe you can learn from them.
Tim Smith 37:13
But if you're not being honest with yourself, you won't even know what to delegate. So the real clear thing, though, is like being really honest with yourself, and taking like an inventory at all times, at all times. And in professional sports, which I think is interesting. It's like, I mean, you you have one bad season, you're, you're gone. You have one, you start having this stuff - it's like, there's no like we're gonna keep you on for another few years, if you're not cutting it, right?
Gary Matthews Jr. 37:34
Yea, you know, you've got some leeway, right? You can hang around for a couple of years, a few years if you're really, really talented and a team really believes that you're going to mature and grow as a person and as a player. You can stick around, but there's no way that you have longevity in any, in any sport, in any industry, if you don't have the ability to get better.
Tim Smith 38:11
Yeah, I want to highlight one more thing you said, because I think it makes sense to emphasize. I know two boys, that it's actually their mother is a real estate agent in San Diego and really good one and both boys got caught, got pulled up or played -they played for the Astros. Now they're split up. But I was asking the dad and the mom, I was talking to them - and one thing that I just emphasized that they emphasize is they were all like, it was my mom. She was the one there taking me to extra practices, taking me here. She was driving me around, she was giving up on what her dreams were to support me. So I just have to emphasize like the importance of mothers and that support because there's nothing like it. Right?
Gary Matthews Jr. 38:57
Yeah, you know, look, we could, we could dig deep and get into it. And, you know, if you think about the importance of, of a great mother, really, at the end of the day, this is this is your first love your first teacher, right? The first person that you are so dependent on, you learned so much from from a mother and from that relationship. I have been unbelievably blessed and fortunate to have a mother who was dedicated to my well-being, dedicated to filling me with confidence, but being honest with me, teaching me the importance of character and, you know, it's just it's so easy to, to look at my career and point to my father as the reason that I'm in this position. But the truth is, without my amazingly smart and strong mother, I'm just not, I'm not sitting here in this position without her. It's like, it's, I've got a really similar story to this agent in San Diego who had the two sons who played in the major leagues, right? My mom made - still worked, right, single mom who worked hard, college educated, graduated from Cal State Hayward, but did all the things that parents do, right, when they're dedicated to their kids well-being and grooming them and developing their interests. My mother was there for all of the a lot of the practices and did a lot of work that that the fathers were doing. Cleaning up the Little League fields and working at the snack bar behind behind home plate, I have such amazing memories of my mom doing all those things. And look, this isn't a slight on my dad. My dad was away working and handling business but they worked as a team. And without, without my mother's example, and her dedication to me, I, you know, I hate to think about where I'd be without that.
Tim Smith 41:02
Yeah. So let's transition. You had an excellent baseball career. Let's transition. You could have stayed in baseball, you could have gone. There's a lot of different routes in baseball. But your second mountain kind of looked like to me. And that's kind of how we got to know each other is real estate. So yeah, let's talk a little bit about that.
Gary Matthews Jr. 41:23
Yeah, so I didn't necessarily - I wouldn't say I stumbled upon it. I retired officially when I was 37. And that is a really, really long career in itself to begin with. But when you consider that I'm a second generation player, and I'd been playing this game since I was born, the way I kind of explained it was, you know, I'd been to spring training 37 straight years, when I retired. Most people, if they have a 15-year career, which is a long time, that's 15 years of spring training. For me, between my father's career and my own. I'd been in spring training, up to retirement 37 straight years. And so, when I was having a discussion with my dad about how I was feeling, and then I felt like maybe I wanted to take a year off, that I was possibly ready for a change and ready to work on some other things and personal things and, but also maybe ready to learn something new and ready for a new challenge. My father said, "Okay, listen, don't make an announcement. Take a year off. See how you feel." And so by this time, it was 2010 and..
Tim Smith 42:44
And we're the Great Recession, mind you.
Gary Matthews Jr. 42:46
Yeah, we're kind of, you know, kind of in a recession at the time. Right around 2008, '09, 2010. Yeah, we weren't quite recovered yet but I was playing in New York and we were about to start a series against the San Diego Padres in San Diego, down at Petco. And so we flew out after Sunday game from New York. We weren't gonna play until Tuesday, we had Monday off so I came home to my place in Cameo Highlands in Corona del Mar and just kind of catch a little bit of a break, sleep in my own bed for the first time in probably four or five months or something like that since we were playing the season and I went to go look at a couple pieces of real estate. I had been looking in Shore Cliffs - I was by this time, I was looking for something a little bigger. I knew that I was going to stay in Corona del Mar. I'd grown to love the city. You know, loved the community and loved being by the beach, the weather's amazing, just so many things to love about about Orange County and about Corona del Mar, specifically. So I was looking for a bigger piece of property. I looked in Crystal Cove as well. I looked in Harbor View Hills and we stumbled upon this property in Irvine Terrace. And the view was amazing. I had...
Tim Smith 44:12
You're talking about, like, Corona del Mar is already like the crown jewel of Newport Beach. And then you're talking about Cameo Shores, you know, Cameo, Highland, Shore Cliffs, these neighborhoods are amazing, but where you ended up, and especially at the time, so to give some context, Irvine Terrace might be the best neighborhood in Southern California, right? Location wise, but the view is - and so - but if you look at the south side, which is Bayadere Terrace, that's always been looked at as more valuable, but when you look at the elevation change from Bayadere Terrace to Bayside, you're getting rooftops. When you go to Dolphin Terrace, you got like double, and you're looking at like, what's great about the view - amazing about the view you have - it's not like you're just seeing ocean and then it's dark at night, you're looking at all of the little islands of Newport Beach, coastline, Catalina Island You can see all the way to Dana Point like, it doesn't get better. And then at night, you're seeing all the lights!
Gary Matthews Jr. 45:12
On a clear day, on a really clear day, you can see all the way out to San Clemente Island. Right? All the way out in the water so it is a really unique place.
Tim Smith 45:20
And when you bought in Dolphin Terrace, at that time, this was like you are really a pioneer because there weren't a lot of people thinking that at the time.
Gary Matthews Jr. 45:29
Yeah. Including me. Right? I just happen to be home on an off day. So this was a Monday we were going to be playing the next day. I just had an opportunity to sleep in my own bed for 24 hours. And I thought, alright, I got a little time. So I called the one of the agents that I was working with at the time, gave him a call and said, 'Let's go. Let's go see a couple of properties.' And so we looked at - looked in Crystal Cove. We looked at a couple of blank lots up there. We looked in Shore Cliffs. We looked in Harbor View Hills. And then he called me later in the day, we had finished up for the day, he called me later in the day and said, "Hey, this, this property in Irvine Terrace just popped up and I think we should go take a look at it." And, you know, just like, a lot of the major moments in our lives. You know, you know it when you see it. You see it, you can feel it. It hits you. And so as soon as I walked out onto this particular property..
Tim Smith 46:29
So wait, so you guys left. He said, come back. So you went the next day or that night?
Gary Matthews Jr. 46:34
We went the next day. Yeah. So I had a game in San Diego that night but you know, woke up at home. And he said, "Hey, let's go look at this, this piece of property." And I was like, "You know, I kind of got a rush. I gotta be at the stadium. I need to leave here probably around 130. But yeah, let's go out and take a look at it." So we hopped over there went and took a look at it.
Tim Smith 46:54
And you're just like WOW.
Gary Matthews Jr. 46:54
And I was like, wow.
Tim Smith 46:56
Like, right when you walked in.
Gary Matthews Jr. 46:57
Right when I walked out there. It's a dirt lot. Right? Weeds everywhere. But you see the view and I was so taken by the property that I called a family friend, who was Mark Singer, who was a contemporary architect, you know, really known in the Orange County community. Really kind of started this, this Mid-Century Modern, Soft Contemporary kind of movement here in Orange County, if you will. Just unbelievably talented and so I walked the property with him and I asked his opinion, he said, this is this is amazing. And so at the time, he had some things going on, and he, I said, you know, if I didn't use you for a project like this, who would you recommend? And so he recommended Carlton Graham. And so really long story short, I got a deal done on the property, I want to say in 24 hours. And then I left to go finish up the season and began the process of working with Carlton Graham to design a soft contemporary, a lot of people don't know this, but I grew up in a mid-century modern in San Francisco, in a Joseph Eichler home, and so the house that we designed with Carlton Graham was kind of a take off of the house that I grew up, grew up in - just a really did an amazing job. But yeah, I ended up finding this property in Irvine Terrace and it was like a three year process. And so this was right on the heels of me kind of deciding that I wanted to retire. So a year later...
Tim Smith 48:44
So did this kind of help that transition?
Gary Matthews Jr. 48:45
I did retire a year later and so, really, that was a big, big influence. Working on this project really kind of led me to the second career. I'd always had my grandfather's career in mind. You know, he was an entrepreneur, real estate entrepreneur, mostly in commercial real estate for him, but he also owned raw land. And we would always go and look at different homes and different neighborhoods. I always had an appreciation for architecture and design. And so when I began to design this house, maybe a month in I realized that I was kind of using a lot of the tools that I had sharpened and grown while I was playing, right? The ability to take a bunch of team members - in this case, it was an architect, an interior designer, a GC - and take all of these people who have different gifts and talents but using all of us to work towards this common goal of making the most amazing home that we can possibly make for me. And, you know, really it was kind of like, fortuitous in a way because it led me to really becoming comfortable in the decision that I had made to retire, right? I found that I was passionate about real estate. I was passionate about architecture and design. And it really gave me another avenue to honor the this second major male role role model in my life in my grandfather, Willie Smith.
Tim Smith 50:31
It's funny because like, it's funny how, like, when you let seeds of childhood, whether it came from a mentor, or just some your passion or whatever, grow, like, literally, you have this path that has kind of unfolded, because from, because how many guys - it seems like, when you finish your career in baseball, you stay in baseball, you do something, you do an analyst job, but it's like, after 37 years, like you started a new career, and you've done excellent at it.
Gary Matthews Jr. 51:00
Yeah, thank you.
Tim Smith 51:00
You applied the principles. You know, those ingredients we're talking about of success, even though we didn't - I don't think we hammered all five, seven amount or whatever. But you apply them to this and I mean, it would have been just as easy to be like, "Yeah, I'm not confident about that" but you went in there, you did the same principles, and you've been wildly successful in real estate.
Gary Matthews Jr. 51:18
Yeah, and this, you know, to me, I want to be careful. And you know, I don't want to knock any professional athlete who decides to stay in the game, and kind of, I guess, utilize the opportunities that they've earned. And whether it be broadcasting, whether it be coaching, managing, going into the front office, for me, personally, I was just ready for something new. Having been in it for 37 years, that's a really long time to be in any industry, let alone professional sports. So I was really ready for a new challenge, but, you know, I have to be honest, you know, there were moments, especially in those first six months of retirement when I know that I'm working on this project, and, and I'm enjoying it. I'm really like, I was on site every day. Every day I was on site, looking at the property being built, learn how everything's done, and really just taking that same skill set that I have from professional sports, but applying it to this, this project. And but there were moments, you know, opening day comes around that next that next year, right? April comes around and you're at home, you're watching your friends on TV, they're playing, and you do wonder like, "Ooh did I make the right decision?" So you have kind of like that feeling of fight or flight? And look, I was a guy who had, you know, done fortunate enough to do really well financially. I had a blueprint and my grandfather for, you know, what was possible after, after the sports, I had a mother and father and my sister Sherice, who really encouraged me to grow outside of the game, really, for years at that point. But you do still have a point where you're like, "Oof I've done this for a long time, maybe maybe I should go back." And so ultimately, I, I decided to really kind of sit in this and know and really, I went and sought some counseling to help me make the decision and to kind of work out some of the feelings that I had regarding that, that fight or flight, you know, do I go back to playing or, you know, do I do I sit in this, I was spending more time with my kids. And you know, my kids really had such a great reaction to me being home more, that it really made going back impossible, but because I hadn't made an announcement yet. I still had teams calling. And so, you know, when you're sitting at home, and you're just working on this project, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it, but after six months, right, the newness of it wears off. You've had some space and some time away from the game. You're feeling good physically, and you get a phone call for 5 million to go finish out a season you're thinking well, maybe I should..
"Well maybe for six, maybe for seven, I'll go back!"
But ultimately, it was my children and the love of this project, and and therapy, right?
Tim Smith 54:36
So a couple things to unpack. Number one second career, you applied the same principles, right? Which I think is amazing and you've you've been wildly successful. Number two, anytime we're transitioning, we're gonna have doubts. And you said it - you got to listen to that voice, and I think even more importantly, just like you did when you were working on your breaking ball, your sliders, you went to a professional to talk about the feelings that you're having. And what's funny is my last guest today is actually my therapist, and so we're going to talk all about personal growth, which he would say, there's no more important work than personal growth. But the third thing is parenting. Right? Now I want to end with just a couple of questions, because you're not only were you a fantastic baseball player, great in your real estate career, and I wouldn't I can't wait to see what the next 10 years looks like with that.
Gary Matthews Jr. 55:28
You and me both.
Tim Smith 55:29
Right, for sure. But two -- two last questions. Because a lot of parents, I'm a parent, I have a nine and a seven year old and it's really important to me. My wife and I have really pushed hard to make sure that I have built something that I'm not always at work so I can be a part of it. What would be some of your parenting advice? Because we've talked a lot about you and your relationship with your daughter and the growth she's going through. For all those parents out there. Give me some of that parenting advice.
Gary Matthews Jr. 55:57
Oh, man, listen, I um.. the honest communication for for me, and my daughter has been really, really important.
Tim Smith 56:09
So what does that honest communication look like?
Gary Matthews Jr. 56:11
You know, well, she's 18 now. And, you know, my daughter lived in Tucson for the majority of her life. And because I was playing, we would split the parenting time and my daughter was out for visits once a month, we flip flop the holidays, I take her on, on her spring break. And then during the summers we had everyday together so she get out of school during the summer. And then I'd have the whole summer with her, but because we kind of had, you know, quite a bit of space during the school year - the importance of honesty, you know, between my daughter and I - it was, it was paramount. And so I I don't yell. I don't, I don't cuss. I don't scream, right? You know, look, I got quite a few spankings in my life as a young man but I decided that wasn't the route I wanted to take with my parents, and so -- with my child -- and so it has really given us, it's given my daughter space to come to me with anything and be completely honest.
Tim Smith 57:17
So give me some examples. Because you're saying honestly give me some examples, nothing too personal, where you're just like, you know what, this isn't the standard. Because I hear what you're saying - honest communication. And when I'm listening too, it's like, you're honest with you, too. Right? Like, you gotta be honest with yourself. You got to - what does that look like with an 18-year-old daughter.
Gary Matthews Jr. 57:35
I'll give you an example without getting you know, crazy personal. I know my daughter may or may not be watching. You know, things pop up. But we were having a discussion. My daughter plays basketball, high school basketball, she's a senior, and she has the talent to play at the next level. She wasn't sure if that is something she wants to do. And so probably a couple months ago, we were sitting at dinner with my parents and she said that she wanted to play at the next level. I was like, "Honey, you've got the talent to play at the next level, without question, but you don't work hard enough away from the court." And, you know, that is a space where we can have that honest conversation.
Tim Smith 58:21
How did she take that? Did she agree?
Gary Matthews Jr. 58:23
You know, she she agreed with it. But normally, you know, look, it's a it's a sensitive conversation with, with a young woman, right? I want to make sure that she's always confident, right, that I that I do the same thing for her that my mother did for me. Build her with confidence, but also be realistic. And at 18, she is old enough to have these brutally honest conversations about what she's good at and what she's not good at. And I decided..
Tim Smith 58:53
So this was two months ago.
Gary Matthews Jr. 58:55
This was two months ago.
Tim Smith 58:57
What's happening now?
Gary Matthews Jr. 58:58
Now look, she her season started and she's playing. Yeah, she's having a really, really good year. She's working harder than she was before. But you know, the truth is, the jury's still out.
Tim Smith 59:11
Whether or not it's enough.
Gary Matthews Jr. 59:12
On whether it's enough to play at the next level. I believe that we know in our heart what we really want. No one had to tell me to go get some extra batting practice. No one had to tell me to go take some ground balls on a weekend with with my friends, right. You know, high school is a fun time and kids today they have all kinds of options, all kinds of things they can be doing. And but if you want to play at the next level, whether it's college or whether it's professionally, it requires a different level of commitment to the work. The work that no one sees. The work that no one sees on IG, right? No, there's no fans sitting in the stands.
Tim Smith 59:56
So I mean, just going back - my next door neighbor in Monarch Bay - the Wells - their son just got, I mean three years ago, got drafted to the Yankees. Their other son plays at USC - his last year. But that's what his dad and mom were saying. They're like, at 14 to 15, when all the other kids, like he was always talented, and he was always a cut above the rest. But when it came time 14-15, all his friends went this way, and he went this way. And they said it was a lonely path. He wasn't partying. He wasn't on social media. He was working. He was extra time, he was working out. And they're like, we didn't tell him he had to do this. Somehow it connected because talent might get you there but when you get to that level, it's about hard work. It's about putting the time in. It's about milliseconds. It's about extra efforts, right? So it's interesting that you say that, but I think don't you think with your daughter, though, and anybody, as you, as your capacity grows, you learn that you learn to work harder. So it's like..
Gary Matthews Jr. 1:00:59
Yeah and what I've seen is, at 18 and going through the college admissions process, she has really taken ownership of this aspect of her life. She's really beginning to.. we talked a little bit, before we started about, you know, my daughter, recognizing that she needs to think about what she wants her life to look like, and the opportunities that she has. And so, as far as preparation for college admissions in schools, and the type of person that she is, she's, oh, my gosh, she's, she's amazing, right? She is lights out. And so for me, the sports and the basketball is secondary. You know, I only discussed it in that type of way with her, because she said, she brought it up and she said she wanted it. And it's like, listen, if you say you want it, then this is what it's got to be. But to see her level of maturity and the other aspects, given the the challenges of this past year, I'm just so impressed with her. Like, she's going to be fine, whichever path that she chooses but we do - all of us have to take ownership of that - we have to take ownership about what we need to do better about what is required from us, if we want to have the achievements that we that we want to have. And whether, whether it's a high school basketball student athlete, like my daughter, or one of the top real estate agents, or a former professional baseball player, who's now become a real estate investor, we all have things that we have to get dedicated to and have to have that type of honesty and, and even still, even at this level, mentorship to help us get to that next level.
Tim Smith 1:02:50
There's never time. Well, we appreciate you being here. I got one more question for you. But to wrap a couple things up, I love the stay in the batter's box, face your weaknesses, be honest going through it, like that's a big theme for me. The other theme is family, your intuition, being honest, if there were a quote, or if you had a billboard, that you want to be remembered by, what would it be?
Gary Matthews Jr. 1:03:17
Oh, gosh, you know, I have, I still do this. But while I was playing, I had two questions for myself at the end of every night, win, lose, draw good game, bad game, great game, whatever it was, I had two questions. And it was, when I'm looking in the mirror brushing my teeth, it's "Was I prepared?" And, "Did I give my best effort?" I never wanted to have to answer 'no' to those questions. You can lie to your friends, you can lie to the media, you know, you can front for the front office, it may be teammates, but when you're looking in that mirror, you know whether you were prepared, you know whether you gave your best effort, as long as I give my best effort, and I'm prepared, I'll never have any regrets, and neither should anyone else. You know, things have a way of falling into line, if you are honest about those things. And yeah, we know there's a lot of other things that kind of go into success. But for me, you know, those questions were the one thing that still remain constant today.
Tim Smith 1:04:35
And we can use them in everything. I mean, the funny thing is, I probably should have asked you that first because we could have gone through the "was I prepared" and "did I do my best". Because when you really ask yourself those questions Did I do my best? Could I given more effort? Could I have worked harder? Could I - like there's so many things that go into it. It was a real treat to have you here today. And I love that your second career is right in line with me and hopefully that down the road we'll be able to do some stuff together.
Gary Matthews Jr. 1:05:02
Yea, hopefully some big things coming man. I appreciate you. Thanks for having me. Happy holidays to you man. Always a pleasure.
Tim Smith 1:05:08
Good to see you.
Gary Matthews Jr. 1:05:08